i love that front hood badge....its so beautiful
#1
Welcome to my "Automobile flashback series"Every week, over the next 67 weeks, i will make a "Automobile flashback series" thread. Where, we will cover "that" year of the automobile. The good, the bad and the ugly. Interesting facts, outrageous opinions, and amazing feats will be posted.
Quote, originally posted by 4x4s »
As stated in previous episodes, don't be shy about asking questions. While we all are passionate about our current cars, none of them would be what they are today without the constant innovation, improvement, development, and even outright blunders of the past. Ask questions, post up any info or photos you may find, and let's all learn something interesting. (And don't miss the previous episodes: 1920, 1921, 1922, 1923, 1924,1925, 1926, 1927, 1928, 1929, 1930, 1931, 1932 !)
Without any further ado, i present you the year 1933...But first, lets hear that Jingle...
(VH1 Jingle)I love the 30's.... I love the 30's.... I love the 30's!!!!!(VH1 Jingle)
1933 Pierce-Arrow Silver Arrow
The example featured below was recently offered by the Blackhawk Collection for an asking price of $1,450,000.
#4
yah, nothing is al beautiful as a shimmering naked man shooting an arrow!
but really tho, from an artist POV it is nice. I sometimes wish that present day automobile manufacturers went back and designed an older style badge like that.
#5
1933 - the end of Cadillac?? or the begining of automotive niche marketing??
Quote, originally posted by The History of American Technology - The Automobile Industry, 1930 - 1939 » In June, Alfred Sloan assembled the GM Board of Directors to formalize plans to discontinue the slow-moving Cadillac line, which had suffered badly in the Depression. The idea was to follow the Packard lead in moving downmarket with luxury cars. Eliminating the unprofitable Cadillac would leave the less expensive LaSalle as the top GM mark. A young engineer, Nicholas Dreystadt, asked for 10 minutes at the Board's meeting in which to make a proposal for saving the Cadillac line. Like most car makers, GM practiced discrimination in its sales--GM would not sell Cadillacs to Blacks. Dreystadt told the board that many affluent American Blacks were already buying Cadillacs by deception--getting White friends to make the actual purchase. Why not, reasoned Dreystadt, simply include affluent Blacks in the target market for Cadillacs. In the low-volume, high-margin market for Cadillacs, even a small expansion of the market could make a real difference. The GM Board gave Dreystadt 18 months to try. By 1934, the Cadillac line was back to profitability, and by 1940 it had achieved a 1000% increase in sales. Besides representing one small step in breaking down racial discrimination in marketing, the Dreystadt initiative to capture attention of the affluent Black buyer is cited as the first really effective example of genuine niche marketing in the auto industry.
#6
Quote, originally posted by 4x4s » 1933 - the end of Cadillac?? or the begining of automotive niche marketing??
I guess this is what this weekly posting is all about. I had never read anything like this. Incredible. Thank you for the auto insight.
#7
Quote, originally posted by VettePowerGTOLS2 » I guess this is what this weekly posting is all about. I had never read anything like this. Incredible. Thank you for the auto insight.
Yes, in fact it gets even more interesting. Mr. Dreystatd was a very practical fellow, and was promoted to General Manager of Cadillac in 1934. While jumping ahead in our timeline, he made another similar decision during the war years, when auto factories had been co-opted to help with the war effort:
Quote, originally posted by West of Laramie - A Brief History of the Auto Industry - Arsenal of Democracy »
Dreystadt was not a civil rights crusader, but unlike many in the auto industry he drew no color line. So when as general manager of Cadillac during the war he accepted a contract to produce aircraft gyroscopes and skilled workers were simply not to be found, he startled the corporation by hiring and training 2,000 aging black prostitutes from Paradise Valley. He and his personnel manager, James M. Roche, also hired their madams, reasoning plausibly enough that they could manage the women.Dreystadt's unorthodox approach had often put him at odds with the professional managers who were increasingly taking over the auto industry, but this episode put him at odds with just about everyone. In fact, the women did well and eventually surpassed their quotas.
There were plenty of jokes about Dreystadt's "red-light district," but he did not think they were funny. At war's end, the women were let go because returning veterans had preference and the workers wanted them out of the plants. Dreystadt felt he had personally failed these women (several reportedly committed suicide rather than return to their old lives) to whom he had given a taste of dignity and self-respect
These threads are about more than just horsepower, styling, and pictures of cool old cars. The auto industry has had a huge impact on our society in general, and the history of this is often more interesting than the cars themselves.
#8
First car air conditioning in a 1933 prototype.
Quote, originally posted by Cold Comfort, by T. A. Heppenheimer, in "The American Heritage of Invention & Technology" »
Air conditioning for cars developed in parallel, starting with autos that were designed for the rich and rapidly spreading to the masses. R. Buckminster Fuller included air conditioning in his prototype Dymaxion car in 1933. The 1938 Nash offered a “Weather Eye,” a fan-based ventilation system that did not cool the air but at least circulated it. The 1939 Packard was the first production car to feature air cooling, which added 25 percent to its price tag. The equipment filled up the entire trunk, and an on/off switch was the only adjustment.Thw Dymaxion prototype:
Quote, originally posted by http://www.design-technology.org/page2.htm »
The Dymaxion CarRichard Buckminster Fuller set up the Dymaxion Corporation where he became both director and chief engineer. The corporation was set up to develop and manufacture three streamlined prototype cars that were based on his Dymaxion design. The Dymaxion was inspired by aircraft designs at the time.
The image below shows the Dymaxion.
Fuller claimed that the Dymaxion of 1934 could accelerate from 0 to 60 miles per hour in three seconds and had a fuel consumption of 30 miles per gallon.
Unfortunately the prototype car was never manufactured as it proved to have serious design flaws.
0-60 in 3 seconds and 30mpg!!
#9
1933 Duesenberg SJ - coachwork by Boman & Schwartz
#10
It is pretty important to note that the term "air conditioning" did not carry the same meaning in the early years as it does today, at least not in automotive application. "Air conditioning" in the Nash "Weather Eye", and in Fuller's earlier prototype, meant simply that the car was equipped with a fresh-air circulation and distribution system that was able to also heat the incoming air as well as just distribute it.This does not at all demean the accomplishment. Prior to the Nash system's introduction, even the loftiest luxury automobiles had not even the most meager of windshield defrosting provisions, let alone a decent fresh-air heater. Car heating was a primitive matter of usually passing engine-fan-driven underhood air over the exhaust manifold, through a shroud, and ducting this hot air into the cabin through the firewall by opening a simple flap or door. Smelly, dry, and unpleasant, the passenger closest to the inlet got roasted, and those in the backseat had their lap-blankets to make-do. If the exhaust manifold gasket was leaky, one risked asphyxiation as well. One of the last automobiles to rely on this primitive method of cabin-heating was...Volkswagen, with its aircooled earlier cars having such contraptions. Anyone here who has ridden in an old Beetle with leaky manifolds and headgaskets will agree with me that this system was, well, primitive.
The Nash Weather-Eye "air conditioning" system revolutionized passenger comfort in automobiles. It's the first automobile heating system we in the 21st century would recognize as similar to a modern HVAC system.
#11
BTW, Bucky Fuller really should have focused on immovable objects to exercise his peculiar genuis. The Dymaxion was damned-near a lethal weapon to drive. The reverse-tricycle chassis had its steered-wheel at the rear, and if you've ever seen films of this car in motion, it is scary to watch. I'd caption that photograph above, of the fellow climbing into the Dymaxion to drive it, something like; "Tell my wife I love her...".
Talk about final oversteer
Modified by vwlarry at 10:18 AM 5-2-2005
#12
Yes, and the Dymaxion was a really goofy looking beast too.But just imagine if the depression weren't in full force so more money were available to invest in it, and if an open minded "real" automotive designer had worked with Bucky to make many of his out-of-the box ideas work. The automotive landscape of today would be radically different.
Quote, originally posted by vwlarry » ...Talk about final oversteer The first challenge would be getting the two 300lb passengers into the back seat of a '59 Beetle. The second would be the "fast" part of that turn, with that load.
#13
I agree, at least to the extent that Fuller's potential was great. His stubborness with his Dymaxion concept's layout, though, ensured that his particular vision of the automotive future was nothing more than a personal pipedream. His insistence upon lightweight design and efficiency, though are universal.You'd be surprised how large a person can squeeze into a Beetle's backseat. Picture two Scotty Savols (American Idol's tub'o lard) fer'instance. It COULD be done.
Why I'll never know.
#14
Quote, originally posted by 4x4s » 0-60 in 3 seconds and 30mpg!!
Simply Amazing.
1933 > 2005
#15
Quote, originally posted by Gateway » Simply Amazing.
1933 > 2005
Since posting that, I've been looking up a lot more about the Dymaxion - while Fuller may have claimed 0-60 in 3 seconds, I think that was a bit of a stretch. The 1st and 2nd prototypes were powered by a Ford L-head V8 running a 90hp. The Dymaxion probably did have a good top speed (claimed to run 120mph with 11 passengers) due to it's radically streamlined shape, but those areodynamics wouldn't help it too much in the 0-60.
Perhaps he meant his ultimate design - not the prototypes. His goal originally was for the Dymaxion to be powered by turbo-jet engines which were being developed at the time of his first prototypes.
#16
Exactly. The teardrop-cum-snail shape of the Dymaxion looked fast but probably wasn't well suited to high-speed stability. Even if it was, aerodynamics rarely played a role in thirties driving conditions because the cars weren't fast enough to get many benefits from improved aerodynamics. Aerodynamics certainly have almost nothing to do with 0-60 times - that's old-fashioned motor stuff. Engineers at the time didn't necessarily understand the correlation of Aerodynamics and fuel economy, either.Plus the sheer power it takes to reach 60 in three seconds would have been simply impossible in 1933. You might have been able to make an engine with hundreds of horses at the time - but it would probably be a very heavy thing, negating the Dymaxion's lightweight design and probably destroying the chassis, too (if not because of the power, then because of the sheer heft of such an engine in 1933).
The majority of Bucky's designs never really worked - which is probably why he's such a controversial inventor. The Dymaxion is one idea that could not possibly live up to the goals he set for it. Much later, in the 50's, an inventor named Hunt tried to create a working car pattered on the Dymaxion but it too came to nothing. The Hunt featured a fuselage bottom and a giant glass bubble top to form a similar teardrop shape. It was almost impossible to package the powertrain and the car was very unstable, though the steering had thoughtfully been relocated to the front wheels. The chassis was made but the body was never built. Don't know what happened to it.
Modified by Taimar2 at 1:40 PM 5-2-2005
#17
After Plymouth was the only car in 1932 to show an increase in sales from 1931, Chrysler devoted 9 MILLION dollars to redesign the 1933 Plymouth. The resulting car was the first 6 Cylinder Plymouth, and the car that pushed Chrysler in the number 2 spot for overall sales, pushing Ford into third place for the first time.Introduced in Oct 1932, Plymouth advertised "Six for the Price of a Four" as it cost about the same as a 1933 Chevy, but still trailed Ford with it's V8. The basic 6 Cylinder engine proved to be very reliable and economical remaining in service until 1959
#18
1933 - Worlds first police two way radio in Bayonne, NJ
Quote, originally posted by IEEE History Center - Two-Way Police Radio Communication, 1933 » In March 1933, the first two-way AM mobile radio was installed in a patrol car of the Bayonne Police Department. The system was designed by Lieutenant Vincent J. Doyle of the Bayonne Police and radio engineer Frank Gunther. Through the use of a combined transmitter and receiver in the patrol car, the two-way system allowed communication between patrol cars and with the police station.
The Bayonne system was developed less than five years after the deployment of the one-way AM mobile-radio system by the Detroit Police Department. On April 7, 1928, the Detroit Police commenced regular one-way radio communication with its patrol cars, using a system developed by Patrolman Kenneth Cox and Robert L. Batts, an engineering student. This system proved the practicality of land-mobile radio for police work and led to its adoption throughout the county.
Modified by 4x4s at 10:24 PM 5-2-2005
#19
In 1933 Ferdinand Porsche created several prototypes of a car known as the "Type 32". The car featured a rear-mounted 4 cylinder horizontally-opposed, 1 liter aircooled boxer engine, and Porsche's patented torsion bar suspension. The Type 32 prototype had been commisioned by NSU (a German motorcycle manufacturer). Before the car could go into production, however, contractual agreements with Fiat forced NSU out of the carmaking business.An early photo of the NSU Type 32 prototype:
A later shot, with a rear window added:
The Type 32 was hevily influnced by Porsche's previous work for another motorcycle manufacturer Zundapp, who had commisioned him in 1931 to produce the Type 12 prototype. The type 12 was effectively a scaled-down Wanderer, with a rear-mounted, air-cooled, 1.2 Liter 5 cylinder radial engine. Zundapp pulled support from the project before the Type 12 had advanced to being a functional prototype.
The 1931 Zundapp Type 12 prototype:
It's significant to note that both the Type 12 and the Type 32 were created on commision from manufacturers independent of the German government. Thier clear resemblance to the subsequent Kdf Wagen should dispel the myth that "Hitler designed the VW Beetle" (though I'm sure this myth will never really go away). It is true that Hitler had some influence over the eventual Beetle, but more cosmetic than anything else. The Beetle design clearly evolved from the 1933 Type 32 more than anything else.
It must also be pointed out that Dr. Porsche was very aware of other manufacturers works on similar concepts - the Czech Tatra T11 and T12, Edmund Rumplers swing axle design of 1903, and certainly the rear-engined 1927 Mercedes-Benz TA 20H (seeing as how Porsche worked for Mercedes at the time). There are even rumors that Porsche "borrowed" heavily from a design by a German Jew Josef Ganz. According to the rumor, Ganz had created a 1931 prototype of a 'Maikäfer' [May beetle]. Ganz fled Germany for Switzerland before the war started.
Sources:
The History of the Beetle-The Earliest Beginnings pt.1
Volkswagen Beetle - Icon of the age not developed by Ferdinand Porsche
#20
I'm so nit-picky but the arrow in that first photos is clearly bent.For over a cool million you would expect a perfect car, but maybe not.
#21
You're not alone. I was going to comment on the bent arrow, but never got around to it.So much for Pierce-Arrow's quality image, eh?
#22
Quote, originally posted by juice » I'm so nit-picky but the arrow in that first photos is clearly bent. No big deal... Let me in there with my hammer.
#23
Okay, where is the spare tire stored in the Silver Arrow? (Easy for any regular in these threads.)I've always been kind of mesmerized by these cars, of which only 5 were manufactured, and amazingly, all 5 survive. They are perfect examples of the nascent "streamline" era in design, that manage to also keep one foot solidly planted in the past, "primitive" era. One interesting detail of the Silver Arrows is that the longstanding and traditional Pierce-Arrow feature of faired-in, fender-mounted headlamps is here, at long last, finally accorded the true beauty that it had heretofore lacked, at least IMO. Most all prior Pierces, with their trademark "wall-eyed" look, were a little bit odd and off-putting, to my eyes anyway. Not really ugly, just sorta strange. I always wondered how many of Pierce-Arrow's well-heeled clientele opted for the more conventional crossbar-mounted headlamps, which were available as a no-cost option. But then, of course, one gave away the "look" that said to the world; "I drive a Pierce-Arrow.".
#24
Quote, originally posted by vwlarry » Okay, where is the spare tire stored in the Silver Arrow? Hmm...inside the front fenders, behind the front wheels? IIRC Bristol still uses this setup for the Blenhiem series.
#25
After record sales of 5,069 cars in 1926, the Stutz company business declined to 110 autos in 1933. Stutz auto production effectively ended with the final six cars built in 1934. The company continued to manufacture a light delivery van called the Pak Age-Car until April 23, 1938 when a federal court ordered liquidation.1933 Stutz DV32 Dual Cowl Sport Phaeton:
1933 Stutz DV-32 Weymann Super Bearcat:
1933 Stutz DV 32 Roadster:
#26
Few carmakers have bowed-out with such style as Stutz, have they?What beauty.
#27
Ok guys what kind of Plymouth is this?It's a 1933 Plymouth _ _ _ _ _
#28
I don't really know, but maybe she should hook up with the Pierce guy in the first post here. Maybe she could straighten his arrow.
#29
Quote, originally posted by 4x4s » I don't really know, but maybe she should hook up with the Pierce guy in the first post here. Maybe she could straighten his arrow.
#30
Quote, originally posted by 4x4s » I don't really know Seeing how no one else knew the answer or even tried to answer it.
The answer is - 1933 Plymouth coupe
#31
1933 Marked the end of the road for a very special carmaker - Indiana-based Marmon.The final Marmon was undoubtedly the best. The Marmon Sixteen, a V-16 powered luxury machine, was intended to rival the Cadillac V16, as well as the best from Packard, Peerless, Stutz, and other luxury manufacturers of the day. And that it did - it was probably the most well-thought-out, best driving V16 car ever made until the Cizeta-Moroder V16T of the 1980's. The Cadillac actually went retrograde in 1938, when the second Cadillac V16 debuted and went from an OHV arrangement back to a Flathead.
The big Sixteen was a technological tour de Force for Marmon - a company previously associated mostly with middle-of-the-road, upper-middle-class cars in the Buick idiom. The engine, of course, was the star - and what a star. An all-aluminum engine with an OHV layout and wet liners, the engine had monsterous torque - to suit the driving styles of the day. Though the car had 200 hp, second only to the Duesenberg Model J, it was torque that mattered. Back then luxury car owners didn't much care to shift - so they would buy cars with lots of torque and the ultimate test of driveability was top-gear accelleration. The Sixteen could go from 5 mph to nearly 85 mph in top. It helped that the engine was 400 lbs lighter than a Cadillac V16 and the chassis was more rigid.
Marmon had a long history though - including winning the first Indy 500 in the Marmon Wasp back in 1911.
Much of the industry was having a bit of a quiet year in 1933 - they had all invested heavily in the 1932 cars and the '33 models were usually carry-overs, with modified styling. Everybody quickly adapted Graham's valenced fenders (courtesy of Amos Northup), but there weren't too many hugely radical 1933 production cars, at least not in the USA.
The Marmon Sixteen, in all it's glory, was a fitting send off:
Many Sixteens cut a rug at the same parties where the parking lots were full of Mercedes, Rolls-Royces, and Duesenbergs.
Also in the trucking Industry, the Marmon name survived (and still does) on Marmon-Herrington heavy trucks.
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